ask me anything strokes ultimateReworded Question (It is explained better): What do Atheists and Theists think of this man's experience?

*Please read this side note. I am not trying to convert anyone. I am unbiased on this issue of theism. I just want to hear different opinions on what this man experienced. Yes, this a true experience. It was a talk given by Boyd K. Packer. Look it up on google if you don't believe me. No, this is not my experience. And, yes, I know I already asked this question.. but I didn't word it right. So, I reworded it so I get more of the answers I was wanting. I just thought that this man went through an interesting experience and i just wanted to hear different opinions. Please, feel free to share and I know it's kinda long. And yes.. I really am intending this as a question!*

(Experience from Boyd K. Packer)

I sat on a plane next to a professed atheist who pressed his disbelief in God so urgently that I bore my testimony to him. “You are wrong,” I said, “there is a God. I know He lives!”

He protested, “You don’t know. Nobody knows that! You can’t know it!” When I would not yield, the atheist, who was an attorney, asked perhaps the ultimate question on the subject of testimony. “All right,” he said in a sneering, condescending way, “you say you know. Tell me how you know.”

When I attempted to answer, even though I held advanced academic degrees, I was helpless to communicate.

When I used the words Spirit and witness, the atheist responded, “I don’t know what you are talking about.” The words prayer, discernment, and faith, were equally meaningless to him. “You see,” he said, “you don’t really know. If you did, you would be able to tell me how you know.”

I felt, perhaps, that I had borne my testimony to him unwisely and was at a loss as to what to do. Then came the experience! Something came into my mind. The quote, "“A person may profit by noticing the first intimation of the spirit of revelation; for instance, when you feel pure intelligence flowing into you, it may give you sudden strokes of ideas … and thus by learning the Spirit of God and understanding it, you may grow into the principle of revelation, until you become perfect in Christ Jesus.”

Such an idea came into my mind and I said to the atheist, “Let me ask if you know what salt tastes like.”

“Of course I do,” was his reply.

“When did you taste salt last?”

“I just had dinner on the plane.”

“You just think you know what salt tastes like,” I said.

He insisted, “I know what salt tastes like as well as I know anything.”

“If I gave you a cup of salt and a cup of sugar and let you taste them both, could you tell the salt from the sugar?”

“Now you are getting juvenile,” was his reply. “Of course I could tell the difference. I know what salt tastes like. It is an everyday experience—I know it as well as I know anything.”

“Then,” I said, “assuming that I have never tasted salt, explain to me just what it tastes like.”

After some thought, he ventured, “Well-I-uh, it is not sweet and it is not sour.”

“You’ve told me what it isn’t, not what it is.”

After several aask me anything strokes ultimatettempts, of course, he could not do it. He could not convey, in words alone, so ordinary an experience as tasting salt. I bore testimony to him once again and said, “I know there is a God. You ridiculed that testimony and said that if I did know, I would be able to tell you exactly how I know. My friend, spiritually speaking, I have tasted salt. I am no more able to convey to you in words how this knowledge has come than you are to tell me what salt tastes like. But I say to you again, there is a God! He does live! And just because you don’t know, don’t try to tell me that I don’t know, for I do!”

As we parted, I heard him mutter, “I don’t need your religion for a crutch! I don’t need it.”

From that experience forward, I have never been embarrassed or ashamed that I could not explain in words alone everything I know spiritually. The Apostle Paul said it this way:

“We speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.”

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
It sounds like a total fabrication. Mr Packer has been caught in lies before.



And if it is not:

I can give you some salt to taste. Whether you believe in salt or not put some on your tongue and you will taste it.



As for his conviction proving his God is real:


What about the Catholic who says that his version of God is real?

What about the Hindu who says that Vishnu is Lord?

What about the Muslim who says Allah is Great and above all?

What about the man who, with absolute certainty, says that he is Napoleon Bonaparte?


Why is it that the last one, with the evidence that we see against his claim, is declared delusional - but the man, with the evidence that we see against his claim, who says god is real must be given respect.
This was not a real experience, it was a thought experiment and the man who created it never said it was a real experience.

In my opinion, it doesn't help the atheist or theist cause, but it is interesting.
Salt is observable, hence real. Gods only exist inside the human mind, though.
That never happened, did it?
If you believe that Boyd K. Packer (the President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) was speaking a true recollection of any event, you maybe a good candidate to believe in invisible friends
It seems characteristic of an atheist that whenever you beat them in a logical argument, they are still not convinced. They only become irritated.
Whether it's a true story or a very good thought-experiment does not matter. It makes a clear point.

It is useless for people who believe in God to try to argue people who do not believe in God over to their point of view. Just as it is impossible to describe the taste of salt, it is impossible to explain why you believe in God.

If Gask me anything strokes ultimateod wants Atheists to believe, He'll give them their own salt. The humans should shut up.
Whatever. This is all just a semantics game. You call it a miracle - I call it a coincidence. You call it prayer - I call it delusionally talking to yourself.

Bottom line is that there is no evidence of any supernatural beings.
I think it is cherry picking.

That may work for a deist view of God, but for a god that intercedes in the business of man, we don't need to 'explain' god. We can show his works are not real.

So, I cannot argue against the idea of a deist impartial, uncaring, uninvolved god. I can argue that holding this god in any high regard is pointless. but I can't argue against it.

So this is a straw-man really. Frame the idea around something, then say... Well I'm not claiming God matters, or god does anything, I'm just saying there is a "GOD". Well, okay. But it is irrelevant.

The typical CHRISTIAN God includes lots of "magic" and "mysticism" Miracles, power of prayer, etc. All of them can be tested, and shown to be false.

--not superstitious
A rather silly attempt to dodge the fact that there's no evidence of any kind for any claimed god.
And to dodge the fact the he doesn't "know" there's a god.

When you also consider that Boyd K. Packer is famous for telling young mormon boys *proven false lies* about "masturbation," the entire thing is quickly dismissed.

The story is almost certainly made-up anyway. It's a common tactic: make up a story about an "atheist" who gets befuddled by a sincere "testimony." So probably just another Packer lie.

Peace.
I don't think it's an "experience" as much as a "story" ... just like everything else in your bible.
The atheist sounds like quite a jerk.
Hmmm. This is the same argument someone else came up with recently - how would you explain the colour red to a room full of blind people. The answer then was that you could explain about light and wavelengths etc and you could provide experts who can testify that red exists. If you provide enough people who have done independent tests and found evidence of the colour red, then you have to believe them.

It's the same with salt. You may have never tasted it, but you have four other senses - you can see, touch and smell it. You can also find people who have physically tasted it and can give actual evidence that it exists and presumably there is evidence that can be provided in terms of taste receptors on the tongue and how they respond to salt.

Contrast that to someone who claims to know God exists - for a fact. Yet that person has never seen, heard, touched, tasted or smelled god, and cannot provide independently verified evidence that said god exists, and you still just have someone who mistakes wishful thinking for fact.
Too much salt is bad for you.

good questions ask friendsWhat are some good questions to ask friends, to see if they really know you?

What are at least 25 good questions to ask someone to see if they really know you.
1 What's my favorite thing to do?
2 Where did I go for vacation last summer?
3 What do I do when I am bored
4 Who was my ex- girlfriend/ boyfriend?
5 What is my favorite movie?
6 What do I normally order for drinks
7 Do I like roller coasters?
8 Name all of my internet accounts
9 Name all of my pets
10 Whats my religion?
good questions ask friends 11 When is the last time I went to the mall?
12 Name all of my siblings
13 When you get in my car, you will most likely be listening to what radio station?
14 What is my favorite store?
15 When was my last blog post?
16 What is my favorite subject?
17 Have you met my parents?
18 Were you a childhood friend?
19 What color are my flip flops
20 What was my degree (masters, bachelors, etc.)
21 What was my first jobgood questions ask friends?

hope these help!
idreamforlife@yahoo.com
1.what day is my birthday on
2.whats my favoritecolor
3.whats my favorite genreof music
4. whats my emil
5.whats my favorite food
6. favrite movie
7.favorite song
8favrite music artit
9.whats favrite suject inschool
10. what is my favorite sport
11. when did we meet
sorry that i all i got but good luck

classical period historyWhat are some inventions made during the Classical Period of history?

I am trying to make a timeline powerpoint presentation of inventions and regions made during the Classical Period of history. I need 10 slides for my project classical period historyand graphics, sounds, etc...so i need as much information as possible.
if you give the event,period and other details., I will try to collect and give you theclassical period history sources for this slide
If you are referring to the Greco-Roman period there was the steam engine and the water screw (Archimedes) an concrete (the Romans).

the star jobI need help with DreamLife Superstar, I can only get one Star Job. Help?

I got Dreamlife Superstar. But the Only SuperStar thing I can get is T.V star and Pop Star. How do I get others?
Go to the camp and click on camp activities. I had trouble at first too.Press the down button at the campground activities and it shows more activities you can do. Like if you want to be a fashion designer you can join the sewing circle or drawing class or something like that. If you want to be a writer go to the boardwalk and click on the boardwalk activites I think there are activites if you want to bethe star job a writer at the camp too. Go down just like at the camp. And you will find more activites to do like a poem thing, a book club, stuff like that. If you want to be a sports star. Sign up for sports and practice them. An activity will show show up on your bed in your room. press ok when your arrow is on it. Sign up at the beach to sing in a band and play in a band too. You can practice all of these things by clicking on the thing in the room. When you become famous go to your office and click on superstar activitithe star jobes you want to do.
When you go to the camp or the beach depending on what kind of star you want to be if you want to be a sport star pick a sport like soccer and practice it alot your coach will offer you a deal and you'll become a sports star. To become a fashion designer take a sewing circle class stuff like that.

To get caught as a sport star is to get fired from your previous job and join a sport (or sports) at the camp and you'll soon get caught doing it

why i like catsWhy do cats change their behavior during a full moon?

i had a cat that would arch its back and walk around sideways during a full moon. now i have two cats, whom are usually good to each other, but whenever the moon is full they fight all night and have fits. I have found several reports like this and some veterinarians say that the dog and cat injury/illness rate is up during a full moon. But i haven't found anything that explains it. do you have similar stories? do you know why cats change behavior during a full moon? and don't deny it, because it's proven that some cats change their behavior when the moon is full.
its true for most peoples pets and ask any pet owner they wwhy i like catsill most likely tell u ther pets act differently at full moon. I think it is simply even tho most animals can see better in the dark than humans, they can see even more clearly on full moon. because everything is so bright and it is easier to see they become more restless and act differently. the brightness would also bring out more nocturnal hunters like foxes and foregers like racoons etc. this logically sets most pets teeth on edge and with more nocturnal activity from different animals, the whole area is likely to become stirred up.
Yes, I believe cats change their behavior. My stray cat Jeffry always went crazy on fulwhy i like catsl moon.. He would look down at the rocks and think it was moving so he would randomly attack the rocks. He randomly jumped in the air as if he was trying to catch something. He climbed a tree instant and meowed.

He died.. and now my 2 other cats do that too... they fight constant.. rolling down the stairs.. meowing..

Cats don't "change" their behavior. I've heard the same myth about human's but studies do not bare this out.
nope has never happened, it is a myth. There is nothing going on.

youtube kellie picklerWhy can't I upload a video of me singing Red High Heels by Kellie Pickler on Youtube?

I get an error message each time I try. I need this problem solved. It's the viewing public that suffers when these uploads continue to fail.
Because YouTube is full of people singing songs who can't really sing - andyoutube kellie pickler YouTube is fed up with it. It listens to your song when you try to upload it - deems it as trash - so returns an error. It's saving the public from more awful performances of songs! Thank God!

Not really helpful at ayoutube kellie picklerll is it? Never mind! What makes you think people want to hear it in the first place!
conor and dan are SPOT ON


save yourself the embarrassment haha
Obviously YouTube hated you and thinks your ugly.

myspace love saying commentsIs there any way to remove HTML from myspace comments that are already posted?

Someone posted a comment on my band's myspace with really huge text, and it completely messes up the page. This is basically our number one fan, and the comment says "I love <band name hermyspace love saying commentse>" so she'd be heartbroken if I deleted it. I tried disabling HTML comments but it doesn't affect comments already posted. We have label people looking at our page very soon and can't affmyspace love saying commentsord anything making it difficult for them.
no, sorry, the only thing you can do is delete the comment

well, there is this



but it has side effects you may not want